（也参加此简报，还有媒体分支主管帕特里克·吉本斯少校，总部海军陆战队，公共事务）
长臂猿：下午好。我是公共事务部媒体部门主管的主要帕特·吉本斯（Pat Gibbons）。今天下午简报的目的是为您提供JAG手动调查的结果，以了解亚利桑那州马拉纳附近MV-22鱼鹰的4月8日坠机事故，杀死了19名海军陆战队。
Since the accident, I think you know we've tried our best to keep you updated on the proceedings of the investigation. Today we are ready to report that the investigating officer has completed the task.
一会儿，我们将向您介绍Jag Man的执行摘要和摘要 - 好吗？- 整个报告。然后，海军陆战队航空的副指挥官麦考克尔中将将带您浏览这些文件。他将引导您浏览这些文件，以使您可以很好地了解我们从这次事故中学到的东西以及由于此事故所要做的事情。
The complete report, with all of its attachments, is 8,000 pages. It's a very detailed, very complicated document. And in the interest of accuracy, we've summarized the facts into these two lesser documents to hopefully give you a clear understanding without all the other related facts, figures and data.
Now, we chose this forum without the cameras over the more formal news briefing so that we could spend the time -- Gen. McCorkle is prepared to spend an hour with you walking you through these documents. We want to give you a very clear understanding of the causes surrounding this accident and, of course, the steps we're taking to prevent something like this from happening again.
我们确实有B-Roll可供广播公司使用。
Redacted copies of the JAG Man -- and I think you all are familiar with that term, that's the copy of the JAG Manual investigation that's been -- had some pieces removed for privacy reasons -- they will be available as well to those who request them, following the briefing.
首先，在我开始之前的几点，这是找到导致事故的因素的一部分，调查官进行了非常广泛的调查。他研究了可能导致这次事故的所有因素。他看了看设备，看着维护，看了操作程序，看着船员培训，他看着任务的所有细节以及不幸之夜的条件。结果，最终报告提出了许多建议，以改善与该特定事故的原因无关的程序 - 诸如改进的维护程序，对各种飞机组件的修改以及其他无关问题等问题。乐动冠军
The documents that you're going to get, the two smaller documents, are being given -- cover only those findings which relate directly to the cause of this mishap.
尽管我们很乐意与您讨论其他论坛中的其他建议，我们将做到这一点，但我们希望将其限制在此事故的具体原因上。
另一点：麦考克尔中将是调查 - 调查的审查权限。他不同意一些调查官的报告，一些建议。没有什么不寻常的。它确实反映了调查官的独立性，以他认为合适的方式进行调查，并提供他认为适当的建议。
但是，分歧 - 它们不会影响发生事故的原因。这次事故的原因没有分歧。麦考克尔将军将向您解释他对其中一些建议和发现的不同意的理由。我只想清楚这一点。这就是我们希望将军在这里引导您完成的原因之一。
我们还将在我们的网站以及其他任何信息上提供新闻稿。
All this information can be attributed to General McCorkle.
话虽如此，麦考克尔将军？
问：在麦考克尔将军开始之前，如果我能再次问，关于为什么报纸记者的理由 -
麦考克尔：（迈克。）
Q: General, may we just ask --
麦考克尔：是的。
问：我们想知道为什么报纸记者可以用名字引用您，电视记者无法在电视上展示您的脸，尽管您以前的简报都已经在镜头前。
麦考克尔：如果愿意的话，他们可以证明这一点。这就是我的决定。我个人觉得，包括您，包括您，杰米（Jamie）在内的每个人都很好，这里举行的最后一个新闻发布会并不合适。当时我们没有什么新的。我们这样做的真正原因是，嘿，我们要回到飞行并保持所有人的最新状态。
To me, personally, and from the Marine Corps -- and you're welcome to quote me on this on CNN or whatever else -- I feel like -- that there is nothing new, really, in this investigation, that what I'm doing here, in meeting with you all -- in fact, I did not desire to do this. And then I had so many people say, "Well, you know, is the Marine Corps trying to hide something?" And I said, "I'll go down and have a round table meeting." And then it grew and grew, and everybody says, "Hey, we want in the room, in here." And then, "Hey, we're going to tape it," and all the other stuff, and -- which was sort of out my control.
但是我觉得 - 在此时间点，您知道，与埋葬亲人和其他所有事物的家人一起，最后一次在电视上提起它，并在电视上散布在美国，您知道，当没有什么新鲜事物时 - 我觉得在报纸上也一样；如果没有人在报纸上写一个单词，除了说，调查已经完成，jag手册已经删除或其他任何东西，那不会让我伤心。
And like I said, this has grown far beyond what I wanted it to be. I wanted it to be sitting down off the record, and then somebody said, "Well, if you do it off the record, then they're saying, `Well, McCorkle did it always before; now they got a Pentagon spokesman.'" So that after building that small clock, I realized that there's some people that are unhappy with doing this. I spent two hours this morning with the -- over two hours with the wife of the pilot and spent about an hour on the phone last night with the wife of the co- pilot of the lead aircraft. And I personally feel like it's just time to put it to bed, which I wanted to do off the record.
问：我会让你继续简报，但我只是想以应有的尊重说，并了解“所有应有的尊重”一词，我只是不认为逻辑根本没有任何意义。但是您和我可以在另一个时间进行讨论。
McCorkle: Does somebody know how to work the light up here? Mr. Bacon, do you, or -- ?
Bacon: This may go beyond my technical capabilities.
McCorkle: Ah, don't worry about it.
培根：我们可以在这里打开灯吗？我们可以上下提高它，但是我们无法启用。
Q: (Off mike) -- taller. (Laughter.)
培根：（笑）这是我们一生都想做的事情。我们不知道这很容易。
McCorkle: I was going to say, if we got it up any higher I would be like the Queen Mother when they had her with only her head showing behind the lectern.
帕特告诉你,我试图做的——通过the way, I will say this not as a pat on the back to the Marine Corps, but in keeping with what we tried to do in the past. And Jamie McIntyre is now gone, but I got this report last Friday, signed, then the CO of HMX is supposed to review it. Those reviews normally take about a month because of the interest in putting this thing to bed was done. I looked at it, I left with the commandant on Saturday morning, and the lawyers looked at it all over the weekend so that we could release it this week and get things done. We've put this into a news release, as you can see. I'm going to run through that. I'll run through the executive summary, and then I will walk through the synopsis quickly, and we'll then answer any questions that you have.
The report, as I've said before, based on extensive engineering investigations, information retrieved from the on-board flight recorders, and interviews with the witnesses, found that deviations from the scheduled flight plan, an unexpected tail wind -- which I hadn't really dwelt on before. I think the first time I came to you all and came in with the cameras, I said that the winds were reported to be calm. They were reported to be calm. The report says that they had a tailwind of 10 to 15 knots, and it says that several places in the JAG report. The best that I could -- or, the biggest tailwind that I could ever personally find in looking at the CSMU data, the Crash Survivable Memory Unit, was eight knots. So if you looked at that, it was eight knots. The 10 to 15 knots that you're going to see, they said -- had from eyewitnesses on the ground. I would think that I could take the smartest person in the room out with me, and I'm a pretty good just of weather, and we wouldn't have a clue whether it was eight knots or 15 knots. But --
出乎意料的尾风和飞行员进入着陆区的极快下降速率造成了事故的状况。尽管该报告停止将飞行员错误指定为原因，但它指出，命运不佳的飞机的飞行员大大超过了法规确定的安全飞行的下降率。
According to the report, both Ospreys arrived at their final approach coordinates 2000 feet higher than had been briefed for the mission. Rather than abort the approach and go around for another approach, the section lead aircraft attempted a rapid descent into the landing zone, followed by the mishap aircraft. Unknown to the pilots of both aircraft, a 10 to 15 knot tailwind -- there, again, it's mentioned -- was pushing them forward, requiring them to reduce forward air speed to avoid overshooting their intended landing zone.
显然，飞行员都没有意识到他们的高下降速度和低向前的空中速度所带来的危险，这在您飞行的任何直升机中都是相同的，如果您陷入电力定居或涡流环状态，则是其正式名称。随着飞机继续下降，事故飞机增加了下降速度，同时又放慢了飞机的前进速度，以试图将自己从铅飞机旁边重新定位到步道位置。
记得我以前告诉过你，当他越过时，他已经3点钟了。然后他回到了位。我相信这是他们穿过五（一百）到400英尺之间的地方。
在下降的某个时候，MISHAP飞机的低向前空气速度和高下降速率，结合飞行控制输入，诱导涡流环状态或转子叶片摊位，这导致了prop旋转升降机的不对称损失。随后的控制输入加剧了它们的状况，并导致了受控飞行的损失。当飞机影响地面时，四名空中机组人员和15名乘客被杀。
海军陆战队指挥官詹姆斯·L·琼斯（James L. Jones）说：“我们从这次事故中学到了很多东西。”悲剧是，这些都是好海军陆战队，加入了一个具有挑战性的任务。不幸的是，飞行员完成该任务的动力似乎是致命的缺陷。尽管我们没有什么可以说会减轻他们家人和朋友的负担，”将军说，“我们分享了这些海军陆战队的损失，我们将在未来几个月和几年内为这些海军陆战队的家人提供。“
Among the steps that the Marine Corps officials are taking following this accident are:
Continuing to emphasize, through NATOPS changes, ground school syllabi modifications and ready room safety lectures that point out the importance of crew coordination and situational awareness, along with the potential dangers associated with high rates of descent and slow air speeds. This mishap clearly demonstrates how the lack of crew coordination and/or situational awareness can cause the air crew to fall behind the flight profile or timeline necessary to safely execute the mission. Further, although the reported occurrences of vortex ring state or blade stall are rare, all rotor craft have the potential to enter this condition, and air crews must be acutely aware of the potential hazards.
其次，继续探索MV-22的空气动力学特性，以更好地完善和了解有关涡旋环状态的飞行特性和最佳恢复技术。
And lastly, investigating the possibility of developing a warning system that will recognize unsafe rate of descent in low airspeed conditions. I personally think that will be very hard to do.
这次事故发生后，海军陆战队官员还对马拉纳社区的支持表示衷心的感谢。官员们计划正式认识到马拉纳机场经理托马斯·邓肯（Thomas Duncan）和他的儿子罗伯特（Robert）立即回应事故，以试图协助事故受害者，后来为调查官提供了大量帮助。在事故调查期间，Marana Northwest Fire和Rescue District的官方认可也是官方认可。
困扰我的一件事,不是on the air is I think that's something that everybody ought to know. And I put that in there, although the JAG Manual mentions that a couple of times. When you see a lot of people that don't want to help out, this individual that owned the Marana Airport; they said, "You can leave the MV-22 there for year." And he and his whole family were very helpful to us throughout.
问：一般，对不起。我能问你一件事，然后再开始整个报告吗？
简而言之，为什么“人为因素”；为什么不“飞行员错误”？飞行员在那里犯了错误。您说他们没有遵循飞行计划，在飞行员下降的2,000英尺处。为什么不“飞行员错误”？好吧，有什么区别？
McCorkle: "Human factors" is what the Safety Center has used for a long period of time. And I think, when I walk you through here, you'll see that there were human-factor errors that were committed by the two crew members, the pilot and the co-pilot, of the lead airplane, to put the mishap aircraft into the position that he was in. And both the pilots in the mishap aircraft were in there with "human factors," too. So you have got four individuals right there with "human factors."
另外，据说他们有10至15节的尾风。我认为大约是八节。但是他们有尾风。他们发现自己处于遵循铅飞机的位置。应该有一定的观点应该将其分解吗？是的，我想是这样。但是我认为，作为海军陆战队，他们正试图完成任务。
I am more or less -- when someone mentions "pilot error" to me -- I am thinking it was something that was done intentionally, you know, to take a shortcut or something else. And I, therefore, like the JAG investigation, would call this "human factors."
我将通过JAG手册执行摘要。我不会阅读所有这些，我意识到你们都有它。初步声明只是谈论飞机。我有不同的人告诉我将其遗漏的不同部分。每个人都有自己的意见。我想为您提供所有媒体发布，执行摘要，然后是摘要，并与您一起浏览所有内容，然后询问您遇到的任何问题。
初步陈述只是谈论了他们在哪里，发生了什么事，这是一个悲惨的事件，调查不仅是为了确定事故的原因，而且还希望阻止这种不幸事件在将来发生。对于大家而言，在大量工作中，我可能会补充说，您在此处看到的任何内容都直接从JAG手册中抽出，因此这不是Fred McCorkle的意见或其他人的意见。弗雷德·麦考克尔（Fred McCorkle）的话，您看到的任何东西都在括号或括号中，也没有从JAG手册中删除。
Q: What does the MA stand for?
麦考克尔：不幸的飞机。很抱歉，我每次都不为您拼写这一点，但是从长远来看，MA会少复制，这实际上是这样做的，就像我说的那样，大多数人通常会花一个月或六个星期，我想把它拿出来，把它赶到我们身后并继续前进。
The mishap aircraft flight profile in the terminal area, high descent rate and low airspeed -- my words -- most likely resulted in the aircraft experiencing a vortex ring state, which is also known as power settling, and/or blade stall conditions which resulted in departure from controlled flight and the subsequent mishap.
现在，我将告诉您所有的事情 - 并与许多空气动力学专家进行了交谈 - 这在外行人的角度对我来说是什么意思。当他以高的下降速度和低空飞速进来时，他在周围 - 高于1800英尺的下降速度时，我认为他在那里还不错，尽管他已经超过了Natops有点，因为Natops以40节的速度说每分钟800英尺。但是这架飞机具有太多的力量，而且如此光滑，我认为他仍然觉得自己还好。很多人说，好吧，你知道他在看他的仪表吗？我认为，在此时间点他正在看铅飞机，他专注于铅飞机，他的头在飞机外面，试图进入该区域。
Was he in trouble at this point? I think that he was very close to vortex ring state, but I think that he was still okay. I think it was when he put in the 15 degrees angle of bank to move back onto the bearing, and he put in the right rudder, that he got into what I would say -- which isn't mentioned anywhere in the JAG Manual -- an approach turn stall in a fixed-wing aircraft, where you're getting slow, don't have a lot of power on, going to an angle of bank, and then one wing falls off and the other one comes up, where you lose lift off one wing and you have lift on the other wing. In this case, the rotors were his wing, even though he also had a wing out there.
不事故部分没有在任务摘要中概述的那样下降。这导致航班开始飞行的终端阶段，大约比计划的高度高2,000英尺。当不幸部分转向最终进近标题时，它们也受到约10至15节的逆风的影响。这种高于计划的高度的组合，再加上出乎意料的尾风，导致飞行到达LZ [着陆区]，比预期的要高得多。这需要一个非常陡峭的接近角度和快速下降速率，以便在LZ中降落而不会挥舞或绕过。在飞行的最后几分钟中，由于飞行试图操纵LZ时，每分钟超过2,000英尺的下降速率被视为。在不幸之前的最后几秒钟中，距离400英尺AGL的高度（地面高于地面）及以下的高度始终以每分钟超过每分钟的速度下降。
影响因素。尽管我认为我把它带出来了，但实际上并没有得到太大的压力。我们认为，由于Nighthawk 71（这是领先的飞机），并未按照最初计划和简报的下降概况，因此他们将自己置于需要陡峭的近距离角度，并且下降速度很高降落在LZ天鹅的情况下，而不必挥手走来走去。该部门负责人决定继续该方法的决定，导致了不幸的飞机将Nighthawk 71追赶到目标区域。当Mishap空中人员（或飞机试图匹配他的部门的个人资料时）时，Nighthawk 71的船员或Mishap飞机都没有意识到飞行概况的危险潜力。
然后结论是：此不幸似乎不是倾斜转子特定的任何设计，材料或维护因子的结果。它的主要原因 - MV-22进入涡流环状态或电源沉降和/或叶片失速条件的主要原因 - 倾斜转子并不是特殊的。造成不幸的因素 - 陡峭的下降速度和缓慢的空气速度，空气乘员协调不良以及情境意识的降低 - 倾斜转子也不是特别的。
进行测试是为了更好地了解MV-22的局限性和恢复技术。
Key findings of fact:
Autopsies were performed on the bodies of all 19 Marines on board the mishap aircraft at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology on 14 and 15 April, 2000. Nothing in the results of these autopsies of any individual revealed any pre-existing condition or problem that may have been a contributing factor in the mishap. Autopsies indicate that all deaths were consistent with injuries caused by high-speed impact with the ground.
A review of the medical records of the mishap air crew revealed no medical abnormalities that could have contributed to this mishap.
然后，我继续说，工程调查和分析回收的不幸飞机的组件以及对CSMU记录的故障数据的分析显示，没有证据表明会导致或导致不幸的失败或故障。
问：一般，我可以打断你一秒钟吗？
麦考克尔：如果可以的话，我还有一个段落要走。
问：好的。
McCorkle：最后 - 您在文书工作中没有，尽管我会很乐意将其交给您，因为这并不是杰出的 - 最后，我们为最大的努力而努力安全，必须始终牢记，我们在航空中所做的事情本质上是危险的。无论是降落在雨水甲板上到像这样的黑暗任务，我们都以这种方式进行训练，以便我们可以在危机时期成功回答国家的呼吁。这样做并安全地做到这一点一直是我们的挑战。
I've mentioned to a couple of you in here before we, the Department of the Navy, with the Navy and the Marine Corps, I think -- and pulling it out of the air -- that we lost 33 aircraft between the two services last year. In 1956, if you go back -- and I'll be more than happy to get you these figures -- but I think it was 1,600 aircraft that we lost in 1956.
我收到的一封电子邮件，我也很乐意向您传递给您，从第一次世界大战中，一个团体指挥官和每个机翼 - 海军陆战队中的每个飞机机翼都有四个翅膀，每个机翼中有三到四组。
As a group commander wrote, "This month was a very good month. We only lost 34 airplanes in one month." And he said, "Much better" -- this was November -- "Much better than the month of October, in which we lost 84 airplanes."
因此，对于每当我的朋友被杀死或不回来时，确实确实会发生事故的人，我们正在努力做得更好。
我现在会提出您的问题，然后是我的意图，除非 - 我可以看到这也悬而未决，您知道，还有其他所有内容。而且，如果我知道了，如果我知道有这样的起义，您知道要带电视摄像机，我要么从唱片中做到这一点，要么会带来电视摄像机，一个或一个或另一个。但这是我的目的是通过摘要，然后是执行摘要。在摘要中，我想确保，当你们所有人今晚打印您的故事或他们在电视上做的故事时，我在这里给您所有的东西，弗雷德·麦考克尔（Fred McCorkle）有我不同意的情况，或者我觉得有人将稍后出现，这样就不必再回来说：“嘿，麦考克尔没有给我们这个，或者没有给我们这一点。”
问：我当然有兴趣听到这一部分。我只是想迅速问你，鉴于此事的这一参考，铅飞机的飞行员是否对这次事故负有责任 -
麦考克尔：绝对。And --
问：对他采取了任何行动吗？
McCorkle: Administrative action has been taken against the crew of the lead aircraft. A Field Flight Performance Board was given to the crew of the lead aircraft, and they went up through the chain of command, just like the investigation did. And they ended up in my office, and I have taken administrative action against them.
Q: What actions?
McCorkle: Well, I will tell you the nature, although that is -- can be made confidential, and I don't have to say this is what I did. But I have pulled the designations of both the pilot and the co-pilot for a six-month period, and at the end of six months, then they have to go back and re-qualify for the designations that they have.
问：因此，它们持续了六个月。就是它 -
McCorkle: They can still fly. But they cannot fly as the aircraft commander or as the pilot in command for a six-month period, and they don't have any other designations other than that. And I will say it's privileged information since it is an administrative privilege thing that was done.
问：但是四个机组人员中有两个 -
麦考克尔：飞行员和副驾驶。没有理由对机组人员或观察者采取行政行动。
Q: So they can only fly as second seat or --
麦考克尔：是的。That's correct.
Q: They have to requalify as commanders?
麦考克尔：是的。
问：在鱼鹰还是在任何东西上？
麦考克尔：在任何事情上。但是它们在鱼鹰中，所以 - 这就是他们留在那里的地方。目前，他们没有任何其他任何事情都可以成为飞机指挥官。
Yes, sir?
问：一般是一个技术问题，但是在概要的最后一页中，有两个地方谈论了校准的空速和地面速度。在一个地方，它说40节以40节校准了空中速度和地面速度。在另一个地方，它说的是40节的校准空气速度，地面速度为32节。如果您甚至得到了8节的尾风，那么地面速度应该高于空中速度。（暂停。）最后一页。
McCorkle: Is this under the Findings of Fact?
Q: Yeah, the very last page of your report.
McCorkle: Okay. Which finding of fact is it?
问：是 - 好像是275-274，276是 -
工作人员：先生，它在概要的后面，而不是后面 - （听不清）。这是您要涵盖的下一个文件，一般。概要的背面，概要的最后一页。
McCorkle: Okay. Okay, it says the mishap aircraft's last usable recorded data point depicts a rate of descent of 2,760 feet per minute, with an air speed of less than 40 knots air speed, ground speed of 32 knots, nacelle angle at 95 degrees.
问：如果您有尾风，如何获得比空气速度低的接地速度？
麦考克尔：因为目前，这是他的下降速度2,760英尺的原因。飞机颠倒并倒置。
问：好的。
McCorkle: Yes, sir?
Q: Sir, the report points out in several places that this accident apparently had nothing to do with the V-22 tilt rotor technology. Yet another helicopter would not get in trouble, would it, with what would seem like a fixed-wing stall to begin with; right?
麦考克尔（McCorkle）：我在这里告诉这个小组，当我是越南的第一位中尉时，我正在执政时，我比这些家伙更幸运，因为我正在越南的紧急提取物进入6,000英尺的区域。当时 - 尽管已经很久以前，我仍然可以记住这一点拉力并停止下降。
嗯,我越拉,我是越快descending to go in to hit the ground. Where I was lucky is I was on the edge of a 6,000-foot mountain so that I was able to tilt the aircraft a little bit and go down the side. The same time I did I took off power and lowered the nose, which is the procedure. Had I been in the position that these individuals were, you know, passing through 350 feet or so, I'm sure that I would have continued to pull power all the way to the ground and would have continued to get faster all the way to the ground.
I've non-concurred with one of the findings in here where it says although the high rate of speed or high rate of descent or whatever was what caused the accident, this should be looked into because this was not consistent with the departure on things that you would see in helicopters. When General Zinni, who a lot of you have talked to, was an old colonel and I was a very young colonel, I put 16 out of 17 of his Marines in body bags in Korea where a CH-53 had done very much what this aircraft did. And he had rolled into an angled bank and then tried to pull, and when he did I think that he was either in a vortex ring state or settling with power, vice power settling -- one of those two. But anyway, he impacted the ground, had a huge fire, killed 17 Marines. The one that I didn't put in a body bag died on the way to the ship when they were medevacing him out. And I've seen several other instances like that.
While -- and somebody says, well, you know, a helicopter don't do an approach turn stall, and a fixed wing don't get into vortex ring state, the MV-22 is not a helicopter and it's not a fixed wing, it's a new type of aircraft. But there's nothing new in this vortex ring state that we haven't seen in helicopters. And when you're doing 2,000 feet per minute rate of descent and the NATOP says 800 feet per minute rate of descent, then you've exceeded NATOPS by 250 percent.
问:嗯,如果我可以遵循,一次。Have you decided whether he would have gotten into the vortex ring state if he hadn't had the sort of fixed wing stall to begin with? I mean --
McCorkle：我的个人意见 - 这不在JAG手册中，但我已经说过是为了带领飞机飞行员 - 我觉得有时候我当然也可能太过了。但是我已经说过，我认为，由于这些人失去生命的不幸飞机可能与帮助铅飞机有关，后者的下降速度也很高。不如仪表板两个快。
但是，当他开始伸出力量时，他看到自己无法挥手，将Nacelles推向固定翼飞机，如果您处于Vortex Ring状态，这是程序，但他没有脱下电力 -他增加了力量 - 这样他就无法避免撞到地面。实际上，然后将Nacelles抬起，因为他们将占地65％。70％，您可以降落在半固定的机翼，半螺旋中。他以每分钟超过900英尺的速度影响了地面。
To show you the crashworthiness of the MV-22, my CH-46, which I've flown for 30 years, the max rate of descent that you can do without doing damage to it is 460 feet per minute. At 500 or 600 feet per minute, I think the tail would probably break off. These guys hit at over 900 feet per minute and not one of the ground individuals in the back, the 15 passengers, not one of them thought it was a particularly hard landing.
问：您是说我们最初报告的影响可能是由于事故飞机爆炸爆炸而造成的，但是您现在说的是（听不清）输入？
McCorkle: There are still, in both the JAG investigation and other investigators say that they think that that possibly may have blown out the ground cushion out of the front. I think that their high rate of descent was in there, also, that possibly the aircraft crashing in the back may have even helped the aircraft in the front -- when they said, "Wave off, wave off," you know -- in getting forward and getting a little bit of forward airspeed.
Yes, sir.
Q: Can you talk about some of the steps that the Corps is going to take as a result of the accident, particularly the one you mentioned about the possibility of developing a warning system?
麦考克尔：那是JAG手册的建议之一。我已经与Navairsyscom [Naval Air Systems Commands]的许多真正的专家进行了交谈。我认为，开发警告系统将非常困难，该警告系统告诉您，如果您进入涡流状态。对我来说，我们没有任何固定翼飞机上的任何东西，告诉您您将进入滑倒车失速。我们没有任何告诉您您要进入进近的人，因为我们有您没有得到的程序 - 如果您在固定机翼飞机中慢慢且在固定机翼飞机上的靠近角度很高，那你就在那个区域。
To me, the warning system is the 800 feet per minute on your VSI [vertical speed indicator], or on your rate of descent, when you're below 40 knots.
而且，这架飞机具有令人难以置信的力量，您知道，这架飞机绝对没有问题。一旦到达那里，我不确定如何开发警告系统，或者如何将其提出到飞机中。
问：结果，您是否认为 - 您是说海军陆战队不会考虑发展 -
McCorkle: We're absolutely going to look into it; NavAir is going to look into it. But this was quoted and pulled directly out of the JAG Manual, that that was one of the recommendations that NavAirSysCom do that. I personally feel like -- and most people wouldn't tell you that -- most generals probably wouldn't tell you that; they would say, "Yeah, we're looking at it" -- I personally think that that would be a very difficult system to do, in talking with the engineers.
问：我的意思是，我们必须想什么？那 - （听不清） - 修改 - 您可以谈论 - 我的意思是，还有多少小时或您打算沿这些工作 -
塔米托德:现在,我没有看到任何更多的时间or anything more in the simulators or whatever. I think that real emphasis is put on crew coordination, with the lead aircraft and the rear aircraft, when we are flying the MV-22. I think real emphasis is also going to be put on following what's in the NATOPS. You know, no matter how powerful you think this aircraft is -- I mean, as I told you all a couple of years ago, you know, when I flew this aircraft that it has an incredible amount of power -- and I think in this case, that the individuals were looking out, were following their lead aircraft, were following their wingmen -- for any of you that have flown out there -- and just didn't realize, you know, that he was going into this position. But I can tell you that, to a man now, all the individuals -- that -- (inaudible) -- stuck OPEVAL -- all the individuals that are being transitioned into the aircraft, they look at that rate of descent on the way down, no matter how comfortable it feels to them.
Yes, sir?
问：我可以回去吗？您正在描述铅飞机的所作所为。我能否要求您再说一次他们的所作所为与遇到麻烦的飞机有所不同？我听说你说他们走了 - 把舵处于部分向前的位置一段时间吗？
McCorkle: No. This was after the chase airplane crashed.
Q: Oh, oh. Okay.
McCorkle: Here, as you read through -- and I gave you all so many findings of fact, you know, that -- but there were like 375 or whatever; I probably gave you all 125; I never counted how many -- but I listed each one of them.
The lead aircraft arrived over the departure point 2,000 feet high. Part of that problem -- you say, "Well, why did the guy do that?" The co-pilot, who was going to tell him, "Okay, descend now," had dropped something. I am not sure if it was a map or what it was. But he had dropped something, which everybody drops something out of an airplane or down on the floor; and he was trying to retrieve it.
And the pilot said, "Okay, when are we supposed to descend?" And he said, "We're already supposed to be going down." So they start their descent at about 1,200 feet per minute. Now, this is a long time, you know, before the accident. And I see you writing down -- I believe it's 1,200 feet per minute, but those are listed, so don't hold me to them.
And I think the mishap aircraft said, "Okay, you know, he's starting down," so he starts down gently at about 500 feet per minute rate of descent. He sees that he's fallen behind, and passing through 1,000 feet, the mishap aircraft gets up to about 3,700 feet per minute. And you all can read that --
问：（迈克离开。）
麦考克尔（McCorkle）： - 他经过一千英尺时，每分钟3,700英尺。但是当有人看着那个时，他们会说：“耶稣基督，你知道，这个家伙从天上掉下来。”他有前进的空中速度，因为那时在500英尺处，他实际上感觉自己的速度太快了，他开始伸出力量并实际上进入了攀登。这就是MV-22的强大功能，只要您具有前进的空中速度。而且，这部分可能也使他也睡觉了，就这是一个每分钟超过3700英尺的人，掌权并实际上开始攀登。
Q: This is the chase -- this is the second aircraft?
McCorkle: Yeah, this is the aircraft that crashed. And so -- but the lead aircraft, then, when he's coming in on final, he has about a 1,200 foot per minute, I believe is what's on the CSMU data, and you all have that, about a 1,200 foot per minute rate of descent. And then Dash 2, if he's behind again, you know, and he's looking out of the cockpit following him, so he takes power off again and tries to catch up with him, and that's where he got in trouble, passing through 400 feet.
问：这听起来像是第一架飞机中的副驾驶的一系列事件可能始于他的注意力。就是它 -
McCorkle: As I've said, and as I've told the families, I think that any accident that you see, that any aircraft, whether it's lost off a ship, whether it's lost in a landing zone, it very seldom is one factor, you know, where you said this is pilot error. It's normally a whole bunch of links in the chain that are broken, not just one link in the chain.
And I think that the co-pilot dropping his map, or whatever he dropped -- and it was a 25-second period, I think the JAG investigation said, that they were trying to retrieve it -- 25 seconds. Then the second link in the chain, you know, they show up over the LZ 2,000 feet high. The third link in the chain, I think that both pilots in the chase aircraft were intent on watching the lead aircraft so that they could both show up in the LZ at the same time. The fourth link in the chain is when Dash 1, or the lead aircraft, with their crew coordination, didn't say, "Okay, why don't we go ahead and wave this off?"
领先的副驾驶员一次说 - 您知道，这是因为他们拥有数据和现在的语音数据，“我认为我们正在悬挂仪表板2。”
问：（迈克离开。）
塔米托德:这意味着,“我认为我们挂了他out there, you know, that we have too high a rate of descent, or we're doing something wrong, you know, to drag him out back there."
But after all of that, you know, if you and I go out and we're in two cars together, two airplanes, or whatever else, and I want to keep up with you, still, if you're driving too fast or flying too fast or descending too fast, and I crash, then you bear a large part of the responsibility, but you did not make my car or my airplane crash. You know, I'm the guy that's in there, and my co-pilot; we're the guys that are responsible for it.
Yes, sir?
问：一般，我只想再一次，因为我不明白，也许是因为我不明白。但是涡流环状态 - 任何直升机都可能遇到这个问题。固定翼摊位 - 任何固定翼都可能遇到这个问题 - （迈克）。但是，如果这是唯一将两者都融合在一起的飞机，并且如果两者之间存在联系，则在最初的失速和涡流环状态之间存在联系，您怎么能说这项技术至少不是贡献者？
McCorkle: I don't think that the technology has anything to do with it. I think the technology, if anything, when the rate of descent is set at 800 feet per minute under 40 knots, and you're over 2,000 feet per minute and still able to pull it out, you know -- as I would say, you know, it's two and a half times better than a helicopter. If this were a fixed-wing airplane, you know, when he put in the angle of bank or whatever, a fixed-wing airplane would have crashed a long time ago if he was ever down to 40 knots.
So here you've got a guy in a helicopter state, you know, that's 250 percent higher rate of descent than the -- than is recommended. If he were in a fixed-wing position, you know, he's probably 60 knots or 70 knots slower than would be recommended, you know, if he were in a fixed-wing state.
So if you look at the MV-22, and the airplane's still flying, you know, until you finally get to the point to where you're 250 percent higher rate of descent, and then you're at 40 knots and have the 15 degrees angle of bank and the rudder in there at the same time -- so to me, on -- any fixed-wing airplane or any helicopter would have stalled; you would have had blade stall or wing stall a long time before this.
Q: There's one provision in here where you disagree with, "However, the end result, departure from controlled flight, is more extreme than a result experienced in most rudder craft to date." You just --
麦考克（McCorkle）：我这么说的原因 - 我得到我的认可，如果您愿意的话，我的原因是我这样说是因为[ch-] 53d，那就是做了JAG或这项调查的人们，您知道，可能没有那种经验。53d，我把16个孩子放在手提袋里。实际上，其中有四个，我们乘斯帕图拉斯第二天离开了地面。这是一个做同样的事情的人。这是一次非常暴力的事故，夺走了17名海军陆战队的生命。而且我现在已经看到了。当您回去时，当您说出发时，您再次知道固定翼飞机，您可以有一个距离转弯。直升机，您可以具有涡流状态；看来这个家伙都做到了。但是，在他超越了您在固定翼或直升机上可以做的事情之后，他做到了。
问：只是给我们一个有意义的东西 - 像53或46这样的直升机，或其他任何东西，Natops中最大的下降速率是多少？
McCorkle: Eight hundred feet per minute in a 46 or a Cobra or a Huey when you're below 40 knots. The 53 Echo and the 53D don't even give a rate of descent or an airspeed; it just says high rates of descent and low airspeeds can cause you to go into a vortex ring state.
问：但是，鱼鹰和其中许多之间都是一样的 -
麦考克尔：是的。从这些人拥有的数据点。就像我说的那样，飞机具有太多的力量，以至于个人说：“嘿，我们已经走了1,200英尺，做到了150％。”那使它正确吗？不，不是。而且我已经说过，如果说800英尺，我不在乎您拥有多少功率，您知道已经做过的测试已经完成。这架飞机每分钟超过2,000英尺。
Yes, sir?
问：船员协调问题。在这样的方法中，飞行员的头从驾驶舱中伸出，将自己放在铅飞机上，副驾驶员是否负责看他的空速？有人应该把他的头放在仪表上吗？
McCorkle: It all depends. And I'm not sure how this flight was done when you talk about crew coordination.
但是通常，如果我进去，我会说：“好吧，我要看飞机；你告诉我我的空速是什么，或者“你告诉我我的下降速度是多少”。而且，如果您不这样大部头书。而且我不知道这些人在那里对船员协调进行了简报。但是显然，在我看来，在追逐飞机和铅飞机中，机组人员协调发生了故障。
问：说纳塞尔在某种程度上倾斜之前，力量沉降实际上才真正启动是正确的吗？
McCorkle: He was already, I think -- and 95 percent is a full helicopter mode, even though you would think it would be a hundred percent, 95 percent is a full helicopter mode, not just the attitude of the airplane and where it is. And it's my opinion, and you might read something different in the JAG, but I think from the CSMU data that he was at full or 95 percent nacelle before he ever slowed below 40 knots, so that at the time -- and he never got into a vortex ring state or even approached it until he was below 40 knots. So when he was below 40 knots he was in the full helicopter mode.
Q: Was the tilt essentially at 95 percent the whole time, or did he adjust the tilt during the flight?
McCorkle: No, I think that once he went in, once he started going into raising the nacelles, at 800 feet he was still -- I'm not sure where the nacelles were. You can read it in the findings of fact. But wherever they were, he was still well above 40 knots, so he still had a fixed wing airspeed. But once he raised the nacelles all the way up and he was at 95 percent, I'm pretty sure that he was at 95 percent -- I know he was at 380 feet, which is where he first started getting into trouble. But I think that he was at 95 percent when he was passing through 500 feet.
问：因此，直到他转换为该模式之后才说没有麻烦的迹象是正确的。
麦考克尔：是的。直到他40节以下表示空速，他才遇到麻烦。
问：此刻，他在380英尺处遇到麻烦，他能做什么才能摆脱困境？将转子向前翻转，并且 - 会这样做，或者 -
麦考克尔：当时我认为他仍然会以380英尺的空速速度击中地面。如果当时他一直将集体一直降低并降至65％或其他东西，那么他也许能够以非常艰难的降落来脱颖而出。
问：嗯，铅飞机的做法会有所不同？显然，由于某种原因，您对飞行员和副驾驶进行了纪律处分。是为了太快吗？我的意思是，最简单 -
塔米托德:当飞机,在我看来,一个rrived 2000 feet high at the IP, the initial point, and they started the descent, they came into the LZ where they were going to land -- like if your recorder here is where you're going to land and he says, "This is the landing point under our nose," I think, were the words that he used, and he says, "We can either land long or we can wave it off," was one of the voice reports from the lead aircraft. And then he went on to say, "We're hanging Dash 2 out."
因此，换句话说，他到达了，他的下降速度很快。他要着陆很久。当时，我认为，首席飞机应该说：“为什么我们不继续前进，将其带回去，然后将其带回呢？”现在，他是否导致Dash 2崩溃？不，因为Dash 2可以说：“我要四处走动，”您知道，“无论您是否想四处走动。”但是有些事情，两个机组人员都可以做，这就是我在这里告诉绅士的原因，在我看来，链条中有几个链接，你知道吗？而且没有一个 - 从来没有意图做任何事情。
我已经看到牛仔造成了很多事故。这些人都是大通飞机的主要飞机飞行员非常专业的飞行员。正如我之前在这里所说的那样，我知道两位飞行员是第一批中尉，都在追逐飞机上。他们被选中了大约5％的人 - 我是上校董事会的总裁，大约不到50％。您知道，这些家伙倒下了，被选中了5％的人。所以他们是最好的。
我认为船员协调和其他事情上有很多小事，它始于地图或铅驾驶舱中掉落的任何东西，使它们高高到达IP，然后从那里开始做过的其他小事情，但是所有这些都加在一起，以使这个人想完成任务并按时完成任务，以超过大量的下降速度，然后失去对飞机的控制。
问：总统 -
Q: Have you got a soft spot for --
McCorkle: No, back here. This gentleman's had his hand up about 10 times.
问：他们在WTI [武器策略指导]，并且 - 练习在WTI？
麦考克尔：是的。
Q: (Inaudible) -- they call is very realistic. What role did that realism play in them not wanting to wave the landing off? I mean, normally in exercises they might not mind waving off, but at WTI they try to make it work.
McCorkle: I was the commanding officer at MAWTS [Marine Aviation Weapons and Tactics Squadron] 1 for the weapons and tactics instructors for three years, and I can tell you that I've seen a hundred approaches waved off from individuals that were either in dust or something else, and they would say they were taking it around.
当您看艰难的方法时 - 现在有一个人现在是一个上校，对我有用，那是当时的队长，他一次告诉我，他说：“我从来没有挥舞过一个方法。”那天晚上，我听到他吱吱作响的小声音说：“（白人？）挥舞着。”我知道，尽管这个家伙 - 我们都对飞行飞机有自我。而且我认为，如果他们知道自己有麻烦的话，这些家伙会很快挥手。我认为他们已经将自己置于没有意识到的位置。
Yes, ma'am?
Q: General, I'm embarrassed to ask this, but I'm not a helicopter pilot so I don't understand. There was no kind of oral warning, whatsoever, there's no unsafe altitude, unsafe rate of descent warning that goes off?
McCorkle: No. Like I said, if you get in a steady turn stall in a fixed-wing airplane, there's no warning that tells you you're in trouble. We just lost an F-18D down at Beaufort, a two-seat F-18, which in my opinion is the greatest airplane that God's ever allowed men to build that's out there right now. Like a Marine, may not do any one thing the best, but does 30 things really well. And these guys were doing ACM, Air Combat Maneuvering, and they got slow, stalled the airplane. There's no warning that comes off. There's no way that you can put a skid turn stall warning in. There's no way that you can put an approach turn stall warning in a fixed-wing airplane. There's no way, in my opinion, and we're looking at it, but that you can put a vortex range state warning into a helicopter.
Q: If they had had more altitude, would --
McCorkle: If they had had more altitude, they'd have had it made, in my opinion, because it could have become a fixed-wing airplane.
Q: You said the aircraft pilot put the throttle controls at a soft stop. Is that full power or is that something short of full power?
McCorkle: I'm not sure exactly where it is on power --
员工：查理，他们所拥有的是一个全功率软停止，然后您可以按一下按钮，可以超越标准功率。那是不同的 - （迈克）。
McCorkle: But the full power, in my understanding, is about 95 percent. And I was surprised, quite frankly, at the start -- I wasn't at the end, you know, once you read all the way through it, because as soon as the airplane departed, you know, into the stall or whatever, he's not going to add full -- go to the stop, you know, when the nose is pointed at the ground. He knew at that point that he was really in trouble.
But the soft stop is about 95 percent, I think, on the power.
问：您能否在这一事件中讨论尾风的影响？你知道，那有多重要？
McCorkle：JAG手册以10至15节的形式提出。当我浏览CSMU数据时，我能找到的最多是8节的逆风。这是一个促成因素吗？是的。但是，当我谈论链条中的所有链接时，我会最好地说，尾风是一半的链接。
现在 -
问：应该 - 我的意思是，在固定翼飞机中，如果可以的话，您会降落在风中，对吗？
McCorkle: And in a helicopter you do also.
问：所以他们应该进来，一旦他们知道有一个朝着不同的方向出现的逆风 -
McCorkle: No, if they knew it. The winds were briefed to be calm. When I came into this group the first time, somebody said, "How were the winds, you know?" And I said the winds were calm.
I went back -- and so many people asked, and they said, "Are you sure there wasn't a tailwind?" And I said, "You can take it to the bank, you know, because I'm going to tell you the truth and what I hear." And then I went back, and they said, "No, winds were calm." And two days later somebody said, "Well, you know there was a tailwind." And I saw a video, you know, of smoke being blown down the runway in the opposite direction. So I said, "Well, maybe there was a tailwind."
Now individuals say it was 10 to 15 knots. Like I said, the CSMU data is 8 knots.
Would it have helped them? I do not think that it would have prevented the crash, had they been coming in the other direction, but I do think that it was a contributing factor. Maybe it was right on the edge between them -- departing flight and doing a real hard landing. Maybe it was. But I -- my personal opinion is that the 8 knots wouldn't have made a lot of difference.
Yes, sir?
问：报告中有什么可以放慢您当前的时间表，以在10月或12月进行全率生产？
McCorkle: No. In fact, I'm really happy that you asked that question, because this is the KPPs, the key performance parameters, for the MV-22. And for you guys, who have sat in here and looked at a lot of KPPs for a lot of airplanes -- and I remember when we did the AV-8, and we were putting wax on the wings of it to try to make it -- make the air speed.
只是给你几个：
C external: The requirements were 50 nautical miles. MV-22 did 118. C troop lift: 50 nautical miles. It did 93 nautical miles. Land troop mission: 200 nautical miles. It did 236. Cruise speed: 240. Demonstrated 265. And so on and so forth, all the way down.
自我部署性：当我们将这些飞机带回新河 - 这是在坠机之后 - 当他们在中国湖上时，我们中的三个不停地飞入MCAS New River，其中一条进入了Pax River，但是 - 从中国湖一直到东海岸，没有人使用任何转子的工艺品。
Q: So, I mean, it's met most of the laid-out KPPs for the testing?
麦考克尔：是的。这并不是所有的KPP-所有KPP。满足或超过所有关键性能参数。
吉本斯：我们只有时间再提出一个问题 -
Q: Can you just give me the -- just it's kind of -- it's not -- so the current milestone three decision is what? I mean, if they --
McCorkle: We're hoping for the milestone three decision for full rate development to be sometime in October. The OPEVAL was complete, I think Saturday a week ago --
Staff: Fifteenth of -- 15 July.
McCorkle: -- 15 July the OPEVAL was complete --
问：那是什么？
Q: Operational evaluation.
Q: Oh.
麦考克尔： - 7月15日的运营评估。他们有90天的时间来撰写报告。然后决定之后做出了决定。我认为该报告将在90天之前撰写，因为当飞机被指挥官在家庭或他们所做的任何事情上拒绝时，当时报告的一部分是在报告中的一部分。
问：（迈克离开。）
麦考克尔：绝对。
Q: Any changes to the flight envelope as a result of this or did the review find the flight envelope for the aircraft was fine?
McCorkle：不。我在Navairsyscom上与之交谈的所有专家，他们觉得飞机之间的200英尺间隔就足够了。他们还觉得每分钟800英尺，40节或低于40节就足够了。弗雷德·麦考克尔（Fred McCorkle）的观点，如果我们去并花了很多钱测试它可能会朝另一个方向发展，您知道，我们可以说您可以以35节或其他任何方式进行每分钟每分钟一千英尺，我'D只是将其从空中拉出，我会说请不要引用我的记录，在录音带上或其他任何内容。但是，我认为，以每分钟800英尺和40节的速度，有一个很大的耶稣因素。任何不知道的人，在航空中，大耶稣的因素意味着耶稣在那之后稍微照顾你，你知道吗？
Q: Are they very conservative? In other words, you could -- you could --
McCorkle: Very liberal.
问：好的。Thank you.
问：这是什么 -
麦考克尔：道格和查理，您的思考方式，非常保守是对的。
好吧，我们会接受 - （由于交谈而听不清）。
Q: Where is this report then in the sequence of the investigation of this crash? Is this kind of at an interim stage, and then this other board, the Air Mishap Board, is supposed to make a conclusion as well?
麦考克尔：这 - 法官倡导者手册报告《 JAG调查》是关于不当行为的官方报告，它看着一切，要么说我们认为飞机有什么问题，我们认为有不当行为是不当行为。船员，我们认为中队或其他任何地方都有不当行为。
你知道，这就是它的外观。
And this is a report that is made public, the JAG report. There are portions of it that are considered to be not public, and such things as autopsies, you know, and -- for families, but I've added in there, you know, that all of the individuals died with injuries consistent with high-speed impact with the ground, and that's in the paperwork that you have.
There are some other things that are out of there, but when you all leave here -- and if you want, there is a copy of the JAG Manual. Now, I've told you most of the recommendations, and they are listed in the media thing. You will find that when you get the JAG, that the opinions and recommendations are not in there. That is because if I give those to you in the JAG, then I set a precedence for JAGs in the future that come out. Like on the CH-46 crash on the West Coast, they weren't in there. But I can tell you, I can assure you to a person that when you leave here, that you have those opinions and recommendations, you know, that you've been given by Fred McCorkle in one way or another, either through the media report or whatever in there.
现在，不幸的调查是一份特权文件，它看着 - 我知道，我已经从事不幸的调查了，我知道，我不是说“这是第57页”，因为这是不合适的，因为这是安全部门使用的特权信息。但是我什至列出了JAG，它经历了，实际上，今天早上的一位妻子说：“有工程调查吗？有人看着引擎吗？”我退出了 - 有三页列出了其中的每一页，都是在这架飞机上进行的所有工程调查的一行转子。其中每个都被送回Navairsyscom或其他一些工厂，您知道他们在哪里做。
Q: So there is not going to be another report, or there is?
麦考克尔：不，没有发生 - 当不幸的调查问世时，这些都不会发布给媒体。这被认为是一份特权文件。为了给您一个例子，它们通常同时完成。我认为不幸的调查不会从现在开始四个月来到我的桌子上。这就是我们为使Jag脱颖而出并为您公开的努力。
问：好的。因此，这是您给我们的最后一句话。
麦考克尔：是的。And the reason, quite frankly, is I would say that at this point in time -- and I've told a couple of people in here that I see nothing new, nothing forthcoming.
That's the reason that I didn't think -- I thought two or three people would show up, that we didn't do it on the air, that we didn't do it with cameras or whatever else, which apparently did not thrill Jamie McIntyre or other people in here. And I am very sorry for that because I consider them to be personal friends.
但是，正如我所说的那样，您知道，一切都写在Vieques上的一切，它继续并继续并继续。你知道，我没有在鱼鹰上看到任何东西，除了指挥官对鱼鹰仍然非常有信心。既然没有什么新鲜事物，所以我说：“您知道，目前有什么故事？为什么您知道，当故事完成时，您知道在相机上做某事？”
As far as I was concerned, the last one that I gave you all, where I brought the charts and stuff in, which was very unusual at that point in time for a mishap investigation, sort of brought to closure, from my perspective, you know, what had happened with the airplane.
问：因此，将与家人建立一些持续的关系，那将是一个持续的过程？
麦考克尔：绝对。是的。
Q: The official investigation phase is completed -- (inaudible).
麦考克尔：是的，夫人？
Q: Could I just quickly get you to recap the numbers? How many Ospreys do you have now, and how many are you expecting to get this year?
McCorkle: We have seven right now. I don't -- by this year -- by the --
问：下一个会计年度是它的发展方式，对吗？
McCorkle: The next fiscal year is -- (to staff) -- 16?
工作人员：是的，先生。我们要获得16岁。
Q: So if you have seven, including one that you just got, what's it mean?
Q: No, that's the Air Force -- (inaudible).
问：哦，空军得到了他们。好的。
麦考克尔（McCorkle）：我们有两个 - 我们将被送入本月 - 他们将被交付。那将使我们达到七个。这并不计入Pax河的任何测试飞机。这些仍然是测试和评估飞机。
问：好的。And you are just as confident in the aircraft as you have told us before?
McCorkle: More so than ever, and particularly when you talk to the individuals that are flying the MV-22. As I have said, and without talking about any other aircraft, almost every aircraft that comes on, they'll say: "Is it faster than the aircraft that it's replacing? Will it go as far as the aircraft it's replacing? Will it lift or carry as much?"
在几乎每种情况下，有人都可以指着手指。
您知道这是一架飞机，这是整个生产线的两到四倍。当我把KPP放到这里时，如果我把它们与46进行比较，我的意思是，在某些领域，这是五倍的好。我想说您乘坐其他任何飞机，包括海军陆战队飞机 - 在我们开始飞行时，在我们的F-18C上，它比F-4快吗？否。它会比F-4更好吗？绝对地。你知道，这是更好的飞机吗？如果您查看了AV-8并将其与A-4进行了比较，则您会说在该区域几乎没有好处。
So I'm not talking about the E and F, I'm not talking about the F-22, I'm talking about Marine Corps airplanes here. This airplane is two to five times better in every area.
Okay? Thank you all very much. And I really appreciate all your help.